ENFP vs. ENTP – George Carlin and Bill Hicks compared
13 Comments
This was a great read. Thanks for posting.
Thanks!
most of the other sites I see say Carlin is an ENTP. How do you explain the difference?
At CT, we don’t go by what other sites think, but by our own research.
Likewise, as you probably know, a lot of those other sites simply copy and paste the same lists of typings without evaluating them. So the fact that many sites say the same thing doesn’t necessarily mean that a lot of people have looked into the matter.
As we say in the infographic, Carlin can look like an ENTP because he exaggerates his misanthropy on stage.
But – to put it very simply – ENTPs, being Ti/Fe types, are more “hollow inside” whereas ENFPs, being Fi/Te types, tend to regard each person as unique (including themselves). In our opinion, Hicks fits the former (Fe) and Carlin the latter (Fi).
Dear Celebrity Types,
Have you read the books of George Carlin, especially the Brain Droppings? He has a crying clown attitude towards humanity with his ‘society spiraling down the drain’ metaphors and by diversifying himself from the comedians who suggest hope when doing their critique rants targeting society as a whole. Both of these seem more like ENTP, rather than ENFP representations. He’s not masking his inner warmth, he is actually flat out misanthropic.
He also does not avoid engaging the critical faculties of the audience, he does it through the back door:
“But when you’re in front of an audience and you make them laugh at a new idea, you’re guiding the whole being for the moment. No one is ever more him/herself than when they really laugh. Their defenses are down. It’s very Zen-like, that moment. They are completely open, completely themselves when that message hits the brain and the laugh begins. That’s when new ideas can be implanted. If a new idea slips in at that moment, it has a chance to grow.”
― George Carlin, Last Words
Hi Tony,
Thanks for a well-thought-out comment.
1: Carlin says that society is going down the drain. That isn’t in conflict with what we said; underneath the comic veneer he adopts a wise and sageful attitude that despairs at humanity and society.
2: This part of your quote indicates Ne, with little preference for Ti or Fi: “They are completely open, completely themselves when that message hits the brain and the laugh begins. That’s when new ideas can be implanted. If a new idea slips in at that moment, it has a chance to grow. … Their defenses are down. It’s very Zen-like, that moment.” You will find both NTPs and NFPs saying such things as more or less of a stock phrase. Just here is John Mayer: “Songs can be Trojan horses, taking charged ideas and sneaking past the ego’s defenses and into the open mind.”
3: However, this part of your quote: “But when you’re in front of an audience and you make them laugh at a new idea, you’re guiding the whole being for the moment. No one is ever more him/herself than when they really laugh.” we take to indicate Fi over Ti, because of its focus on the individual as distinct from other entities.
That is not to say that one cannot find evidence to contradict our assessment; it is certainly possible.
“we take to indicate Fi over Ti, because of its focus on the individual as distinct from other entities.”
Yes, I forgot that NTPs considered themselves primarily as part of another entity and didn’t see themselves as inviduals at all. Oh wait. Even according to function theory (NOT intended to type this way), BOTH “introverted judging” functions are fiercely individualistic. The idea that an NTP could not say the quote in question and only an “Fi” user could is just so absurd it makes my head want to explode. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with either “Fi” or “Ti” or “tertiary and inferior functions” or anything else that doesn’t exist and is only intended for symbolic purposes, not as a diagnostic tool. You are just looking to validate your predetermined typing via your ridiculous brand of situational, cherry picked pseudoscience as usual. Apparently everything anyone has ever said can be taken out of context to indicate their “function preferences.” (Only after Celebrity Types has already decided what type you are of course!) Pretty sure Jung himself would cringe at such nonsense. All that matters is that Carlin clearly indicated a thinking preference. Listening to him for five seconds shows that. There is no measurable difference between his style of comedy and basic personality and Hicks’s or Bill Maher’s. And this idea that one of these types is supposed to be inherently more “hollow inside” is just absurd.
I thought we had agreed that you should go and play with the people who think JFK is an INTJ (like you do).
Run along now.
Speaking of Bill Maher, I think you should take another look at him. He doesn’t seem like ENTP at all. His style of humour is more raw and judgemental and he often comes across as rude, confrontational, impatient and frustrated. I’ve never seen a hint of Fe in any one of his episodes, although I do think there is some Ne in his humour and not Ni. Seems like the typical ESTJ style of being a comedian as described in your “Another look at ESTJ” article.
Contrast his style with say Jon Stewart who always finds some rapport with his guests, Bill Maher often times seems like he cant stand the people he’s interviewing and quite frequently becomes irritated or even angry. And New Rules is textbook ESTJ, ‘let me show you how everything I don’t like is wrong and dumb, with a funny twist’
Bill has both Republicans and Democrats on his show, which is a Fe-based decision. He also prefers to hear both sides of the issue (thus, an Ne-dom). He’s different from Jon Stewart because they are both different people, but it seems fairly apparent that they’re both ENTP.
Bill Hicks is definitely either ENTP or ENFP but its hard to pin him down to one of them. He called himself a “misanthropic humanist” which makes it confusing. Sometimes he showed a misanthropic side making him look ENTP and other times he showed a humanistic side making him look ENFP. Its likely some parts of his persona were exaggerated. In one of his last interviews he did in Texas on a public access channel he mentioned that he is a optimist. Here is that interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33TtuQuz82Q
Ii score in the middle on extroverted thinking and perceiving with a very high intuition level does it matter
I don’t suppose there’s any chance of this site putting up an ENTP or ENFP test? This image doesn’t really help because I’m not a stand up comedian. I wouldn’t really know for sure how my preference might change until I did it.
This was a great read. Thanks for posting.
Thanks!
most of the other sites I see say Carlin is an ENTP. How do you explain the difference?
At CT, we don’t go by what other sites think, but by our own research.
Likewise, as you probably know, a lot of those other sites simply copy and paste the same lists of typings without evaluating them. So the fact that many sites say the same thing doesn’t necessarily mean that a lot of people have looked into the matter.
As we say in the infographic, Carlin can look like an ENTP because he exaggerates his misanthropy on stage.
But – to put it very simply – ENTPs, being Ti/Fe types, are more “hollow inside” whereas ENFPs, being Fi/Te types, tend to regard each person as unique (including themselves). In our opinion, Hicks fits the former (Fe) and Carlin the latter (Fi).
Dear Celebrity Types,
Have you read the books of George Carlin, especially the Brain Droppings? He has a crying clown attitude towards humanity with his ‘society spiraling down the drain’ metaphors and by diversifying himself from the comedians who suggest hope when doing their critique rants targeting society as a whole. Both of these seem more like ENTP, rather than ENFP representations. He’s not masking his inner warmth, he is actually flat out misanthropic.
He also does not avoid engaging the critical faculties of the audience, he does it through the back door:
“But when you’re in front of an audience and you make them laugh at a new idea, you’re guiding the whole being for the moment. No one is ever more him/herself than when they really laugh. Their defenses are down. It’s very Zen-like, that moment. They are completely open, completely themselves when that message hits the brain and the laugh begins. That’s when new ideas can be implanted. If a new idea slips in at that moment, it has a chance to grow.”
― George Carlin, Last Words
Hi Tony,
Thanks for a well-thought-out comment.
1: Carlin says that society is going down the drain. That isn’t in conflict with what we said; underneath the comic veneer he adopts a wise and sageful attitude that despairs at humanity and society.
2: This part of your quote indicates Ne, with little preference for Ti or Fi: “They are completely open, completely themselves when that message hits the brain and the laugh begins. That’s when new ideas can be implanted. If a new idea slips in at that moment, it has a chance to grow. … Their defenses are down. It’s very Zen-like, that moment.” You will find both NTPs and NFPs saying such things as more or less of a stock phrase. Just here is John Mayer: “Songs can be Trojan horses, taking charged ideas and sneaking past the ego’s defenses and into the open mind.”
3: However, this part of your quote: “But when you’re in front of an audience and you make them laugh at a new idea, you’re guiding the whole being for the moment. No one is ever more him/herself than when they really laugh.” we take to indicate Fi over Ti, because of its focus on the individual as distinct from other entities.
That is not to say that one cannot find evidence to contradict our assessment; it is certainly possible.
“we take to indicate Fi over Ti, because of its focus on the individual as distinct from other entities.”
Yes, I forgot that NTPs considered themselves primarily as part of another entity and didn’t see themselves as inviduals at all. Oh wait. Even according to function theory (NOT intended to type this way), BOTH “introverted judging” functions are fiercely individualistic. The idea that an NTP could not say the quote in question and only an “Fi” user could is just so absurd it makes my head want to explode. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with either “Fi” or “Ti” or “tertiary and inferior functions” or anything else that doesn’t exist and is only intended for symbolic purposes, not as a diagnostic tool. You are just looking to validate your predetermined typing via your ridiculous brand of situational, cherry picked pseudoscience as usual. Apparently everything anyone has ever said can be taken out of context to indicate their “function preferences.” (Only after Celebrity Types has already decided what type you are of course!) Pretty sure Jung himself would cringe at such nonsense. All that matters is that Carlin clearly indicated a thinking preference. Listening to him for five seconds shows that. There is no measurable difference between his style of comedy and basic personality and Hicks’s or Bill Maher’s. And this idea that one of these types is supposed to be inherently more “hollow inside” is just absurd.
I thought we had agreed that you should go and play with the people who think JFK is an INTJ (like you do).
Run along now.
Speaking of Bill Maher, I think you should take another look at him. He doesn’t seem like ENTP at all. His style of humour is more raw and judgemental and he often comes across as rude, confrontational, impatient and frustrated. I’ve never seen a hint of Fe in any one of his episodes, although I do think there is some Ne in his humour and not Ni. Seems like the typical ESTJ style of being a comedian as described in your “Another look at ESTJ” article.
Contrast his style with say Jon Stewart who always finds some rapport with his guests, Bill Maher often times seems like he cant stand the people he’s interviewing and quite frequently becomes irritated or even angry. And New Rules is textbook ESTJ, ‘let me show you how everything I don’t like is wrong and dumb, with a funny twist’
Bill has both Republicans and Democrats on his show, which is a Fe-based decision. He also prefers to hear both sides of the issue (thus, an Ne-dom). He’s different from Jon Stewart because they are both different people, but it seems fairly apparent that they’re both ENTP.
Bill Hicks is definitely either ENTP or ENFP but its hard to pin him down to one of them. He called himself a “misanthropic humanist” which makes it confusing. Sometimes he showed a misanthropic side making him look ENTP and other times he showed a humanistic side making him look ENFP. Its likely some parts of his persona were exaggerated. In one of his last interviews he did in Texas on a public access channel he mentioned that he is a optimist. Here is that interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33TtuQuz82Q
Ii score in the middle on extroverted thinking and perceiving with a very high intuition level does it matter
I don’t suppose there’s any chance of this site putting up an ENTP or ENFP test? This image doesn’t really help because I’m not a stand up comedian. I wouldn’t really know for sure how my preference might change until I did it.